83: Michelle Pippin: Creator of Women Who Wow
Michelle Pippin: Creator of Women Who Wow
And today my special guest is Michelle Pippin. Michelle is the proud founder of Women Who Wow, the most exclusive association of women business owners in the world. Now boasting members in 50 States and eight countries, Women Who Wow has provided a place for seriously driven women entrepreneurs, to create wild success on their own terms. At the helm, Michelle sets the tone for women in business to accept no excuses, especially their own. Her confidence in being able to make money on your own terms, without compromising your priorities, is what women entrepreneurs need.
Episode Highlights
How she took $50 from savings to begin her “Anything for Money” entrepreneurial journey and made 63K her first year
Wanting to empower women to make a living and still be the mother and wife they wanted to be, she launched her Women Who Wow membership
She shares how her business grew into the most exclusive association of women business owners around the world
Tune into this episode and learn her three tips for entrepreneurs, the online courses she's created, and how her business has morphed into the mentoring and coaching platform it is today.
Mentioned In This Episode
Transcript:
Speaker 1 (00:01):
And today my special guest is Michelle Pippin. Michelle is the proud founder of women who wow.com the most exclusive association of women business owners in the world. Now boasting members in 50 States and eight countries, women who wow, has provided a place for seriously driven women entrepreneurs to create wild success on their own terms . At the helm of Wow, Michelle sets the tone for women in business to accept no excuses, especially their own, and to preserve unreasonable goals, but her confidence and being able to make money on your own terms without compromising your priorities is what women entrepreneurs need more than anything else. Michelle, thank you so much for joining me. I'm super excited to delve into your story and to learn more about your entrepreneur journey.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Oh, I couldn't be more excited to be here. I've been looking forward to it all week.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So Michelle, why don't you jump right in and tell the audience a little bit more about your journey and to how you got to where you are today?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah. So, you know, today I run the coolest online sisterhood of women entrepreneurs in the world, right? Like, but it didn't start out that way. I mean, I began my entrepreneurial journey as a very young, very pregnant mother and or mother to be right. And I'm married to a public school teacher who is my, my soulmate, my very best friend, my greatest treasure on this earth. Right. But neither of us had family money anywhere. We get married. I was a social worker at the time and he he's a public school teacher and we decided to have a family. And I had this idea that I just wanted to be there for my kids for every little moment. Right. So the idea of like a daycare, even a family daycare, it didn't appeal to me. And that's no judgment on anybody who does another way.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Right. But I just wanted to, to be there for every moment. And yet I had to bring in a full-time income. And so when my oldest was born, I actually took $50 out of our savings. And at the time to give you perspective, we had $213 in savings. That's like what we had put away. And so I took $50 of that and I bought a roll of stamps and I think maybe business cards, which I never used, but I bought that and they're in, began my entrepreneurial journey. And in that first year I made $63,000. This my oldest is 22 years old. Just to give you a little bit of a timeline. And I made $63,000 working from home around a baby's schedule with no business training, no website. I never attended a networking meeting. Right. Like, so I was just breaking all of the rules.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
And I didn't even know I was a success because in my mind I was sort of cobbling together, an income. I wasn't starting a business. Right. I live in a very rural area of North Carolina and they actually still don't offer a business license. So I never really felt like a business owner. I just was cobbling together, an income. And from there I started to finalize things. I started formalized things. I started a, a real company, I guess, where I did HR provided HR services. And then I went into coaching and so that's been my journey just really gutting it out. Bootstrapping it, going it, you know, going it alone and and making it up as I went. Right. You remember, if you a member and people who are grizzled veterans like myself, you know, back in the day 22 years ago, it wasn't easy to find, say a you know, a business coach, certainly there was no one out there doing a podcast or a, you know, a YouTube station on teaching you how to grow an online business or, or develop your own courses.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Right. So people today have it a lot easier in, in a lot of ways. But back then, we just kind of had to make it up on our own. And today I I run Women Who Wow, I created Women Who Wow, essentially, because I wanted a place for women like me, right? Like we're, we're very, very diverse in our membership. Diverse in every way, like race, religion, political affiliation, but we're United by two things. One is our drive, right? We think bigger than most other people, we dream and scheme and we intend to reach our goals, but we're also United by our stubbornness. We intend to do things our own way. We're not willing to give up our life in order to make a living. And so I started Women Who Wow to create a home really for those women, a kind of a one-stop shop, a place where they can have a sisterhood and also a mentor a library of content, all of that.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
But also I created it because I wanted to streamline my own work right before I started Women Who Wow, I was a really high paid business consultant, like strategic consultants. I used prior to that, I got paid to write copy, like sales copy for people. And so I was making amazing money, more money than I ever thought possible. But I had a lot of appointments and my writing time was spent writing for other people. If anybody on here, if you're a creator, a messenger, you know, like you have your own stuff inside. And I've kind of felt like boxed in a little bit to a success that I no longer loved. And I just wanted to kind of streamline it to where I could get paid, to create my own content and not have to write copy for everybody else. And that's really where my current business in its current iteration was born.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So let me ask you this. So 23 approximately years ago, was that in 97 or 98 when you took out those?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, that would have been 22 years ago. So I would, would've been in 1999,
Speaker 1 (05:44):
1999. So you took $50 out of your savings account, which only had $213 in it and said, you know, I'm going to create this income for my, for myself. And for my family to support my family. And you started initially you said providing like HR services type thing, what, what, how did you go out and find clients right then? And what exactly were you and tell us a little bit more about what you were doing.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So that first year I lovingly refer to as my, anything for money tour, right. So if I could do it from home around my kid's schedule and it was like almost legal, then I would do it. And I didn't start the HR business right away. My first year I was essentially, I literally called myself an at-home secretary because the term virtual assistant hadn't been created yet. So I did everything back then that first year from writing resumes for people, I wrote water reports for US embassies overseas, the side note, anybody who travels US embassies overseas, don't drink the water. I I basically, you know, I wrote up, I made created sales letters. I created thank you letters for political campaigns, I mean literally anything that I could do on a computer back then with mainly fax or sometimes email printing stuff up and mailing it.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
That's what I did. How did I get those first clients that first year I wrote a one page letter that I printed at my aunt's office using the printer in her office. And I printed that and I mailed it. You know, I had just, I had been married not long ago. Right. But at this time, and so I had like our wedding list and I mailed a one page letter to anybody who might know me or my parents or my husband and his parents, and essentially said, here's the deal. I am working from home. And if anything can be done on a computer or fax or email or phone, then I can do it. And but I didn't mail all of the 100 letters out at one time. I mailed them out. And I don't know where I got this idea. It just, it made sense to me.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I mailed them out 10 at a time. So it mailed the first 10. And then I would spend that week connecting with those 10 people following up on the direct mail piece with a phone call. Hey, did you get my email? Can we talk about what's going on? And that's how I mailed those letters out. I instinctively knew I wouldn't be able to follow with all 100 at once. So I mailed 10 at a time and called 10 mailed another 10 called 10. And I just started you know, asking them what they needed, done, whether it was personally or, or their, their company that they worked for. And so that's how I got those first clients
Speaker 1 (08:30):
That's fascinating reminds me of just like getting on the phone and just calling people. You don't, you don't do that as much today. So so take us through the next five years. What, how did your business evolve from there?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, so the next five years honestly it probably didn't evolve by that much. I did start curating the work that I did because I realized once I realized like, Oh, this work from home thing can work. I was less desperate. Right. I kind of proven the concept to myself. So I started curating the work that I did. I would you know, not, I wasn't on the, anything for money tour anymore. I would, I would do almost anything for money essentially. Right. but you know, those first five years I can honestly say at that time, then I had three kids. Right. So my kids are stairsteps and I had three kids and they were all at home. I would end up later homeschooling them. So they stayed home. And but I can tell you, I mean, something I'm not really proud of, but those early years were marked by a feeling like a constant feeling of, you know, being broke, right.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Like a constant thinking about money. Like, you know, I'd wake up in a cold sweat, like think about how it's going to pay my student loan bill that month. It was. And and it's funny, cause sometimes we think it's the rich people who think about money all the time. And in my experience, I've, I've had money. I've not had money. It was when I didn't have money that I thought about money all the time. It was, you know, back then I had to wait on paper checks in the mail. And so and then you had to cash them and they might hold the check or whatever, or God forbid it might not go through. So, you know, those five years, I, I feel like were marked by some financial insecurity, even though I never made less than $63,000 a year. Right.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Like I, it always grew however, it was still, I felt insecure a little bit, right. Like I was, I was always waiting on money. It kind of felt a little bit like feast and famine. And and so it was, it was during that probably towards the end of those five years that I got super deliberate and I just, you know, decided that things had to change that I wasn't willing to live like nervous about money, checking the mail, checking the PO box, all that stuff. And so, but yeah, I mean, I hate to say it, but those first five years, and it doesn't have to be that way. If you're in the beginning of your business, you don't have to put in five years of like servitude to anxiety and stress. Like I, I started to learn things that allowed me to do more of what worked to bring money in and to, to charge higher prices and all that. And I started to let go of things that were just BS in the industry. And and it really, it helped me curate my my business in a way that led to just more of what I wanted, which is income impact and influence.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
So how did you, what changes did you make and walk in now, you know, you know, fast forward to like 2010, I'm assuming you started using social media and you had, there was just more in the market tools at your disposal. So what did you do differently then?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, I mean, to be totally honest I'm kind of a, a slow adopter. So I, I remember my assistant at the time, very, very part-time assistant that you know, I had hired, she basically begged me to get on Facebook and I was like super reluctant. Right. So I I really didn't use social media. I continued to use direct mail. It's a, it's a proven thank you. Look up any like the Inc 5,000, you know, they're all using direct mail in addition to social media, but I I'm very much an analog kind of person. So it wasn't the social media or the new tools that came on board that, that changed. But honestly, I just decided to to think differently about my business, if you remember, when I went into business you know, it was, it was 22 years ago.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And so, you know, you heard rumors, maybe of women working from home, but you didn't know anyone personally, right. There were no mentors. You could find if you read articles about women working from home, they were like licking envelopes or something. Right. And so I just decided that I would stop looking at my business as like this way where I would be oh so grateful to make ends meet. Right. Like, and, and I was, I was totally, I was always grateful to be able to make money on my own terms, even though I didn't feel like it was enough money or it wasn't secure enough or whatever, but there was a moment that I just decided I would stop thinking in terms of making ends meet that I decided to go for more right. To ignore the rules, do it my own way and just push forward.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Right. And a big part of that was admitting what I really wanted and was going after. Like, so when I grew up, I grew up on a little farm and and I I'm from a family and my granddad my grandparents on both sides were sharecroppers. I, you know, grew up in a very working class environment. I work is noble where I come from. Right. And for my kids too, my kids are now they're will be 19 this summer, but 18, 20 and 22. And people say like, how do you get your kids to work like this? And I'm like, well, it ain't multiple choice in my house. Right. Work is noble. But I grew up in a way where hard work was noble. And so to be a young mother and to be thinking big, like I wanted to go national at the time.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Never intended to go international. And I really don't ever hold, I still don't hold that out as a goal. But, but like, it just kinda happened. People moved different places or whatever, but, you know, I started to think in terms of what I really wanted was, which was national influence. I wanted to change the way women viewed work. I wanted to empower women to make a living in a way that made them proud and also allowed them to be the mother and wives that they wanted to be. Like, I just started embracing what I really wanted. And then I went after it as if my life depended on it, which it kind of did. Right. Like I never, I don't want to die with my music still in me. I know that I'm given this one life, I'm 44 years old as we're recording this.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
And I just went after it. I decided I'd do whatever it took for as long as it took until I finally felt like I was achieving my own potential. And that was a deciding moment in my business. And I actually just wrote about this recently for one of my online courses. But I feel like sometimes women in particular play coy with their potential, right. They play coy with their goals. They, they, they often don't admit the grandeur of what they really want. And and so, and I didn't either though I was, I was very held back by that. So the day that I decided I'm no longer interested in making ends meet, that's a given, I'm no longer interested in some local business. I want national influence and impact. I'm going to go after it. I'm going to be on major stages.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
And I, as soon as I decided that it was like, you know, the world opened up to me at the same time full disclosure, my husband back, you know, he's still my husband. But back then, he was really like, he was nervous about me flying. And I remember around that time, he picked up one of my one of my business books by Dan Kennedy. And he said, he read the beginning. And he said, you know, everything, this man is saying, it describes you. And he kind of like, he didn't give me permission. That's not the way our relationship works, but it kind of released me a little bit. He's like, wherever you need to fly, like, you just need to, you need to go wherever you need to go. And it was funny because as I decided what I wanted, everything started falling in line and I've had like Gary Vaynerchuk come and speak at my events. I've shared the stage with with Susie Orman and you know, and tons of other big names. Right. And it just, it just sort of happened when I decided, when I stopped playing coy and started admitting what I really want.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
And what year was that Michelle
Speaker 2 (16:19):
That was right around, I would say 2000, well, 2008. My business started really taking off my, my business coaching and copywriting business because all of a sudden my $50 investment in business seemed really attractive because in 2008, people's credit dried up. Right. If you remember the recession. And so my kind of bare bones, bootstrapping thing became really attractive. So my business really took off then, and I would say around 2009, 2010 is when I really started holding events in different cities around the country. And you know, then maybe started to get a little bit into social media. But you know, started, started traveling more speaking more and that it was right around 2009, 2010.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
So walk us through you know, obvious. So that's been about 12 years ago or getting close to it. So walk us through what changes happened in your business after that. I know now you have online courses that you offer, walk us through when you decided, or why you decided to add that to your portfolio and kind of the rationale behind that.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah. So I've actually been doing memberships probably since about 2011. I started my first membership, which I called The Coaching Gym, because I'm super creative like that. Right. So I called it The Coaching Gym and the benefits were you got to call in and talk with me once, twice a month and you reported in via e-coaching via email once a week. And the tools I used were email and a magic Jack phone. If you remember, like, it was like a little Jack that you plugged into the wall. And so I would plug in a phone to that Jack during call-in hours and the way it worked, nobody had appointment setting software back then, or at least I didn't know about it. So people would call in and if it was busy, they'd call back. That was the whole system. But honestly it was, I think, $97 a month.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It was grossing about $10,000 a month, every month. And so quite a successful, a little membership. I had just very, very basic back then. And so I just decided that at the time, so between 2009 and maybe 2012, I was traveling a lot for me, for me that was like once a month. And sometimes I'd have a month where I traveled twice and I honestly am a homebody. I'm like a step above a recluse. Right. I love my home. I love my family. I love my dogs. I love my office. So I was feeling kind of like I was getting becoming ankle chain to a success. I didn't love, I didn't love the, it looked, it looked glamorous and it looked fancy and, and to be totally Frank, that did grow my brand, but I didn't enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
And so I decided that I would just replace all of that travel and speaking on other people's stages with having my own events, like continuing to do my own events, smaller, more intensive and more expensive mastermind, kind of live events and digital programs. And it was just another iteration, like, you know, from the very beginning that first year when I was on the, Anything for Money Tour, to where I started curating a little bit more about the work that I did. Right. Not taking on any kind of job to where the HR business came in. I I've always been curating what I do, how I make a living. And I feel like it's an ongoing process, the same way we work on ourselves. Right. It's like, as I get new ideas or inspiration, or, you know, like right now I'm an empty nester. And so my life looks different. So my hours change a little bit. And my husband's a teacher, so he's been home since March of 2020. So we're both working from home. We're living our best life ever, but yeah, it's just been a constant process and I encourage people always to don't get locked in to even like what you said you were going to create as new options present themselves to you, you know, really follow that blueprint that you have inside follow your inspiration because that's the only way to create a business. That's a perfect fit for you.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So you talked about the membership that you had, The Coaching Gym, and then how you transitioned to kind of doing also your own events. What, what are your products and services look like today? Now that you're an, empty-nester all the kids are out of the house and hopefully at college and maybe even your husband's going back soon, what are you doing today in your business?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So, I, for the record, I don't want my husband to go back. I'm basically begging him to retire every day. Right. I love him being home. And so, yeah. So what do they look like today? So the core of my business is the Women Who Wow membership. And so that is really like, I call it a container membership, right? So people join, they either pay quarterly or they pay annually. And when people join, they come to Women Who Wow as a place to you know, begin, belong and become, right. So we're all up to something. So the core of my income really is that Women Who Wow membership, I also have a higher level mentorship program called Women on a Mission. And so those are for women who, you know, are, are after that national, international success they are interested in national media.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Like that kind, like they're just at a different they're they're at that moment where they're like, this is gonna happen, it's gonna happen. Right. So they get, they, they kind of hop out of Women Who Wow membership and into a, more of a direct mentorship with me all along though. I feel like I want to share this with you guys because I've created a way that I feel like is so incredible to make money. So within membership, I do weekly trainings, right? So that's one of the benefits of membership. Well, a while back, I decided like, why am I creating like weekly trainings for my members and then like outside online courses for other people. So I started to do what I call intensives within membership. So as an example, our last intensive, we just wrapped up the end of April was it was called, it was called, Called, like for women who are Called for more.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Right. And so it has a bunch of different trainings and you know, a monthly, one of the member benefits is the entrepreneurial espresso. It served up hot and fresh every morning. It goes out via email. And so that whole intensive was focused on The Woman Who Feels Called, you know, how do we bridge the gap between, you know, our purpose and our need to make money right now? How do we put more of ourselves into the market? All of that was the focus right now. Here's the deal. I no longer just do those things within membership. What I do is I will launch an intensive to the outsiders, right. To people who are not within Wow. They think they're joining just a digital course, a digital program. Right. But when they join that they are following along with the Women Who Wow members.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
And then I get to invite them to continue the relationship and join Women Who Wow. And a very high percentage of them do. So now it's like, I almost double dip. Right. So instead of saying, Hey, join my membership, join my membership, which frankly is really kind of a hard sell memberships feel not as urgent, right? So it doesn't have a start date, doesn't have an end date, that kind of thing. And so now I'm like, I don't even really mention membership as much. I promote the next course that goes live in the membership. And then people kind of join without knowing, right. They join the program and they get to, they're asked if they want to join to be, you know, to get the additional benefits of membership.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
So I want to ask a couple of questions because I just want to make sure that I understand. Cause I think, I, I think I understood your model, but correct me if I misunderstood anything. So basically what you're doing, you're, its an intensive but basically it's a new course, right. That you're offering to the market. So that's what you're promoting. And then if somebody joins that they're automatically in the membership or so, okay. Tell me how you work that.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah. So they actually they will join, they'll get the live trainings and of course the recordings, they will get the the daily, like kicking the pants, which we call the entrepreneurial espresso. So they get all of the content when they join that online program. Right. but they could upgrade and get all the additional benefits of membership. Right. So they'll buy it. Let's say they buy the course for $247. Right. They buy the online course, and that is an amazing deal. They get the content, they get the live Q and A, they get the the, the daily kick in the pants. They get all of that. But, you know, if they were members one, they'd be paying less. Even if they paid, you know, by the quarter they be paying less, but they'd also get one-on-one time with me at their annual members. They'd also get the co-working space, which is kind of like a, it's a four hour like virtual co-working space at the end of every month where we are really like, we're coaching each other, we're mentoring each other. And we're also just getting stuff done. So there's a lot of benefits that they're missing out on by just buying the course.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Okay. I love that. I love that launch strategy. And you've been doing this for a while, so you I'm assuming making the assumption here that you probably have a pretty big email list, but how are people finding you for these launch intensives? How are you marketing it?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah. So for anybody starting out, I'll tell you like this mindset that, that has been really helpful to me and also for our members, whenever I put content out there, I, I assume that no one, including my mother is going to see it, right. Like a lot of times we will go out to social media and we will you know, focus on getting our social media numbers up. I do not do that. Because I've worked with too many people with, you know, hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram or whatever, and they just not making the money they deserve. So I don't put a lot of focus there, but I do. I put my content out on a regular basis, I show up in content every single day. Right. I believe it's, something's worth doing it's worth doing daily. And I mean, to lead this industry.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
And so I don't think it's too much to ask to show up and converse with this industry on a daily basis. So what I do is I create content and then I make sure it's seen, so I create content for my own purposes on my website. And on my Facebook page, I do daily resources for the women entrepreneur, but I also have a weekly commitment to be published elsewhere. So I'm published in business.com, I'm published in authority magazine. I'm interviewed and I'm published on various podcasts. I'm, you know, so I have a big commitment to media, right. And I'm not talking about like, you know, big media. So I have a media then every year, and we have like the Rachel Ray show there and the drew Barrymore show there. And we've got, you know, Dr. Oz and all that big media.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
But what I found is not only easier to get into, but also a much more profitable is the fine niched industry specific media and go to them, provide content. If you're a writer be interviewed, if you're not a writer, but that's really been my strategy is it's I call it, other people's stages and pages. Right. And and so it's been something where people will say, Oh, I feel like I'm selling to the same people all the time. I feel like I need new people on my list, but they're continuing to produce content for those same people. I have a weekly, I mean, at a minimum once a week, I show up on somebody else's stage and page.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
I love that strategy, Michelle. And I think it's I think it's a powerful message for all of us. So tell me, what do you see as next steps in your business?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
And you play with it all over the years. So yeah, I'm a, I'm a one trick pony, right? So like more of the same for me, right. More of the same bigger audiences, a bigger reach a deeper focus actually. That's where I'm going now. Like I'm in the middle of an online course right now called Naked a business devotional. And it's all about it's all about putting yourself, you know, more of yourself out there honoring who you are as part of your success plan, you know, not doing things that start to, to ankle chain, you to a success you don't like, like really building the business around you. So I, what's new for me in and and you know, continuing to evolve is I am all about the strategy, right?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
I'm a very practical pragmatic person so I'm all about the strategy? But I've also gotten much more into just honoring myself as part of that process. I'm listening to my intuition, being more vulnerable online. So I think there's more of that. What's coming up for me. I've got some pretty huge opportunities and some pretty fun exciting stages and pages that I'm going to be on in 2021. And so, yeah, it's just, it's just more of the same, bringing more and more women entrepreneurs under this umbrella where they can create their, a wild success story on their own terms. And for me, that's what lights me up.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
So my closing question is, Michelle, you've been doing this for a while ever since you pulled out that $50 from your checking account when you only had $213 in their savings
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Account. Oh
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yes. Savings account, same thing. What advice do you have for other online course creators or entrepreneurs out there?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, you know, I think I would, I would have, you know, three pieces of advice. The first is to remember that there is an 80 plus percent failure rate. And my philosophy on this is that they are all following the wrong advice. You know, these four out of five that people that fail and constantly have to reinvent themselves and start a new business and a new company and all this stuff like they they're listening to each other, they're following each other's advice. They're cheering each other on, on the treadmill of business. They only realize they're not getting anywhere. Right. So, you know, the, the first advice is ignore the shoulds of your industry, ignore them. They are leading to a way too high failure rate. Right. So that's the first thing we should question the rules and shoulds and norms of our industry, particularly if you want to break those norms, income wise.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
The second piece of advice I think is to just do it, right? Like, don't wait until you have a certain number of people on your list. I think my first digit real digital program was born in, I don't know, like 2006 or 2007, and I maybe had 400 people on my list, my first live event. I mean, I maybe, I didn't know if I had 200 people on my list, right. And I still made, I think I made like $1,800, not, not a huge amount, but just start right where you are, ignore what people say you have to have upfront. If you have something that you want to offer people that will definitely help them, offer now, whether it's a course and events, a program, whatever you're, you're thinking start now. Because you are going to wish later that you had started earlier. And the third piece of advice is to honor yourself as part of the program, you know, like build this business around you. Burnout is not about the number of hours that you work. Burnout is about doing the wrong work, work that drains you versus energizes you. So do it your own way.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And I think that's some great advice, Michelle. Can you let people know where they can find you?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Absolutely. you can find me@tribeofdrivenwomen.com, tribe of driven women.com. And actually, I'm going to I'm going to look that up really quick. Cause I'm now I'm wondering if yeah, I was thinking it was going to be maybe the tribe, the tribe, but it's not, it's tribe of driven women.com and that will give you all of our free stuff where to find me my podcasts books, where I show up daily, all of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
And I will, I will make sure Michelle, that, that link, that specific link is in the show notes. So they know exactly where to find you. And thank you so much for joining me today. I loved hearing about your story and, you know, kind of the twist and the turns and the different things that you've done all over the years. And I know a lot of people can appreciate and relate to what you've gone through.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Awesome. Thank you for having me. It was so amazing. Thank you.